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The Source for Sparse Invaders http://www.retrosoftware.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=379	Page 2 of 3

Author:	NeilB [ Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Source for Sparse Invaders
Ok, it's been a busy hour... Sound has been added ( thanks to PJ for his hard work ) I've updated my changes, got the fixed project and sprite collections from Steve and added his relocation code into invaders. I've updated the credits in game to hi-light their help, err - I should re-visit the pages here as I'm sure quite a few of you helped with various stages of the development.. Anyway... A big thanks goes to all that helped - There is a slight feature with the sound on a level change when the mother ship is present etc... but it's looking very sexy. I really need feedback from Steve and PJ about using their source etc - so have sent the code off to them for approval - Once that is done - I'll add it here ... and hopefully then when ready add it to the wiki .... I thinking a good long write up might be in order! We need to advertise the fact that GREAT software can be written with the great tools and great support on this site.... Right - better go home, thanks - Neil

Author:	SteveO [ Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Source for Sparse Invaders
Feel free to use any code I've given/published here. It was all supplied for free use Don't forget you've put the most effort in with all your code and putting everything together. Keeping your momentum and getting a project finished is most of the effort ! and giving all the source back on a Wiki is a great contribution and I'm sure it will be a good starting point for many people. I look forward to having a go on the latest version

Author:	SteveO [ Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Source for Sparse Invaders
Just played Neils latest build, it's great, and his code should be a fantastic addition to the Wiki. Very well structured and laid out, top job Neil

Author:	NeilB [ Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Source for Sparse Invaders
Thanks Steve! I've added the SSD to the main wiki and once I've got feedback from you guys I'll place the source on here. Might need help for that! I'm really looking forward to people to grab the code and do their own thing with it ... Wouldn't it be fab to see a heap of games on here! Neil

Author:	SteveO [ Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:09 am ]
Post subject:	Re: The Source for Sparse Invaders
Just to add, I think the difficulty level is about right. On my second attempt I was up to level 6 which felt very satisfying very quickly but also it got very difficult but I knew with a bit of practice I could get past that. It has an gentle difficulty curve to get you in and then I would say it starts to steepen (form me personally anyway) at about level 6. By the way, love the effort made with the font.

Author:	NeilB [ Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Source for Sparse Invaders
Thanks for the feedback on the level difficulty Steve. I've been trying to balance it fairly - well - within the limitations of the platform, I did get 2090 last night so we might have to have a high score compo !! I'll start the write up onthe source - locally on my machine today, and once that's done - hopefully next week the source will be up there, Neil

Author:	NeilB [ Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Source for Sparse Invaders
I got the 'yay' from PJ, so have update the zip - you will find the new source on the first post here. Apart from a few small changes. that's the source that will be placed on the wiki. Please review if interested, Neil

Author:	NeilB [ Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Source for Sparse Invaders
HI all, I've started to write up the source, for the WIKI... http://www.retrosoftware.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Sparse_Invaders#Work_in_progress_-__Source_Write_Up_.28_Not_completed_yet.29 It would be great if you have time to just have a look at what I've done. I have said that I will be placing the ZIP on the wiki - so this write up is just for reference and review. You could say 'Coffee time reading' (don't, please suggest any other time/place for reading the source! ) Right, better go and do some work, thanks - Neil

Author:	MartinB [ Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Source for Sparse Invaders
A good read anytime Neil It's surprising but just seeing a diary is very helpful for anyone writing a game. It feels like a shared struggle and it'll be great to see the source when it's ready for public viewing Martin

Author:	NeilB [ Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:05 am ]
Post subject:	Re: The Source for Sparse Invaders
Thanks Martin, Hmmm ... I think you may of missed my link to the source, its is a little small and would be missed. I've written up about four of the files, so here's the link to the actual page on the wiki... http://www.retrosoftware.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Sparse_Invaders:_Source * PLEASE NOTE the links to the page containing the source and some quick comments! I'm hoping it's helpful and I will put the source in zip form on the wiki as well... warts and all over the weekend. I might be updating it at a later stage, but that's really just comment changing etc. Anyway Martin, hopefully you'll notice this post and would be good to get your feedback on the way its laid out etc. Thanks Neil

Author:	NeilB [ Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Source for Sparse Invaders
OK, the source zip file is on the wiki page reference above ... It's about time!! Thanks - Neil

Author:	SteveO [ Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Source for Sparse Invaders
Had a good look through the source, it is very well laid out a commented. I'd be surprised if people can't load it up and start tinkering right away. It is a perfect introduction for people getting into game development. Only thing I noticed was my comments in the relocate code need updating a little to reflect your project. Great job Neil, I think we should add a more prominent link somewhere for this as it's just such a good intro to coding on the Beeb and in using Swift and all it's features. You've really pushed the "merge" facility etc. far more than I've ever done, allowing fully modularized code rather than single flat files. gin the structure you've created is excellent leading to good readability.

Author:	NeilB [ Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Source for Sparse Invaders
Thanks Steve, it certainly would be a fab idea to make the source more visable to the site. I'm thinking of stripping out invaders and just creating a bare shell, with say the player moving left and right and firing... That will hilite the main features and once they have looked at invaders and no doubt get that itch to write their own game it saves them the hassle of removing redundant code - especially if it's their first project on the beeb. Hmm I'll also have to go through the files quickly - and check the comments, it's slightly annoying as I might to re-visit the relocate file of yours and update the comments, sigh - it's a age thing - this forgetfulness! Thanks - Neil UPDATE - well, it saved me from doing house chores for 15 minutes, so have updated the source, giving it a quick scan of the comments - including your relocate source Steve... Right, sigh - back to the washing up - It's a hard lilfe!

Author:	MartinB [ Sun Nov 08, 2009 6:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Source for Sparse Invaders
That's excellent Neil - really good job my friend Yes, I did scroll straight to the wordy stuff the first time and missed the link but ya' can't miss it now! Had a quick read through but needs some serious bedtime reading methinks! I think the idea of a game shell is a great idea - Tom Walker sent me a very basic frame into which I could drop my 'project' and I eventually managed to tease out the other essential tricks and get them all understood and working. Whilst there's loads and loads of helpful stuff on here, it can still be a bit a handful for absolute beginners - most of whom probably just curl up and quit when they try to get started on a game project Personally, I'm looking forward to studying how you've used Swift to host your game. Mine's still in stand-alone assembler (Lancs ASM) and I've played with Swift but the twain have not yet met and it's something I really need to do. Swift is such a fantastic tool and my not using it is just plain rude to Steve but since I'm not really from a software background I tend to need a serious complete example, such as yours , to get me started. (Despite your excellent video tutorials Steve!) I'll give you some more feedback when I've had a good long read Great job though Neil (and Steve!) Martin

Author:	NeilB [ Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Source for Sparse Invaders
Thanks Martin, well, as I had a little "sparse" time (oh the jokes are getting better! )... I've created a SHELL - blank project, that contains the core functionality and shows sprite creation and movement, sound triggering and also text display. It basically displays one intro screen and then draws the invader player - allowing movement left and right plus the firing of a bullet. I think it shows how to use the invader core code very well, and saves the few hours it would take someone who has not had experience with the code. I'm a nice guy! LOL As usual please review this, I've placed it with the invader souce on the wiki - there is a link above to this, thanks - Neil

Author:	Samwise [ Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:41 am ]
Post subject:	Re: The Source for Sparse Invaders
SteveO wrote: Great job Neil, I think we should add a more prominent link somewhere for this as it's just such a good intro to coding on the Beeb and in using Swift and all it's features. Steve, I could add a link on the FAQ, Sample Code and Useful Docs pages, and perhaps add a line about it on the WIP entry. (Or is this project now complete, Neil? Would you like it moving to the Releases page?) I'm open to any more suggestions? The only other one I thought of - perhaps, given that it was developed with SWIFT, maybe it would be appropriate to bundle Sparse Invaders with the SWIFT download as a free, sample project? Legally, there might be some concerns about bundling a GPL project with SWIFT, which is closed source - but I don't think that's a problem here, as Neil could grant Steve a separate license to use the code. It's perfectly legal to dual-license code. Obviously, you could include Neil's name as author and a link in the comments of the code back to the Sparse Invaders wiki page (http://www.retrosoftware.co.uk/sparseinvaders). Perhaps also have an About menu entry which lists Neil's contribution and the fact that the code is included with permission under a private, non-GPL license. Dunno. Just thought it might be useful to have a sample project, which you could even refer to later down the line in Help descriptions of SWIFT functions? Sam.

Author:	NeilB [ Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Source for Sparse Invaders
Hi Sam, hmm firstly - as far as I'm concerned Sparse Invaders is basically project complete. Certainly no more developement etc is planned for it, apart from maybe the odd fix if needed. Moving it all to the release page does make sense. With adding links please do, sounds grand... from a purely selfish point of view - having people use the Invaders (and shell) source to develop games would be fantastic! Swift - and the sample project - that's a really damn fine idea Sam, I'm in full agreement to do what ever (you know legal stuff muddles my brain! ) so if Steve wanted, he is more then welcome to use the Sparse / Shell source with Swift. I was thinking this morning, maybe a site competition would be in order, to promote swift and developed Beeb games on the site. Say, using the invaders/shell source as a starting point, develope a simple game and put it forward for judging. i'd be more then happy to cough up some cash towards the prize (I was thinking of donating one of my Beebs, but I can't part with them ... but a Beeb could be a good prize (ebay calls LOL) - or even having the winning game made on disk, cassette etc. ). Just really a thought, would be a win win thought as hopefully the site would gain several more games to download etc - and Swift would also greatly profit from several developed projects under it's belt! anyway back to work for me, thanks - Neil

Author:	SteveO [ Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Source for Sparse Invaders
Bundling with Swift sounds grand. I'll add a repository menu item where full working projects (or shells) can be loaded in at a single click. I'll enable new ones to be added but also any current one's will be pre-built in with Swift. Really good idea Sam

Author:	NeilB [ Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Source for Sparse Invaders
I've now added all the pages for the source to be view on the wiki. I still need to comment from SpriteController downwards in the table, but at least the source is available now to read. http://www.retrosoftware.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Sparse_Invaders:_Source This might be a good point to maybe move the Invaders from WIP, just wondering. That said Dave has found a couple of minor bugs so need to attend to them at some point (Be afraid, he found them on level 11 and 12! ) I blame my test department, god darn them! Right, I'd better try and look busy, work calls, Thanks - Neil

Author:	NeilB [ Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Source for Sparse Invaders
OK ... I'm not contantly monitoring the site ... LOL, but a big thanks to who ever moved Sparse Invaders over to the Releases. Certainly feels good seeing it in the 'Releases' section of the site. Woukld be fantastic to see alot more in there. Cheers, Neil

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