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First playable build
http://www.retrosoftware.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=185		 Page 2 of 3
Author:  DaveF [ Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: First playable build
DaveM wrote:
Btw, is there a key to bring up the inventory box where you can cycle through what you've picked up? Or has this been disabled in the demo?


There used to be yes (it was space, and also serves as a pause), but I broke it when I rewrote some tile rendering code so the demo version has it disabled.

I've been working steadily on the game for about a month now so I'm going to have a week or so away from it :)
Author:  SteveO [ Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: First playable build
Way hey, fantastic Dave, thanks to real life getting in the way this is the first time I've logged in here for several days, and then I miss this treat ! Grrr....

Can't wait to see even more of this :)

Will have a more thorough play tomorrow night when I've got more time :)
Author:  DaveF [ Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: First playable build
Samwise wrote:
I also managed to get off the rope before I had climbed to the top of the ledge and managed to walk through the middle, below the surface of the ledge ... I'm sure you've probably noticed that, tho.

Yes, I know about that one. In reality though you can't do much 'damage' if you do that, but I'll probably fix it for my own SAN ;)

As for the suggestions:

  • Player speed - I agree is too fast, I will look at slowing him down.
  • Fall speed - Yes, a proper 'gravity drop' is on the list.
  • No jump, sorry, I like the idea of getting round on the rope and have a good few levels in my head planned out using the rope.
  • There probably won't be music (as I am completely unable to compose a tune), but there will be some spot fx definitely. Little chink when the rope catches, that sort of thing. Citadel has this great eerie sound effect (I think it's when you drop a bit of energy every now and then but not 100% sure) so I'm also after something like that.

Ta for the input Sam.

Cheers,


Dave
Author:  DaveJ [ Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: First playable build
I think it's too early to judge if the player speed is too fast. If there are large distances to traverse - like the Egyptian statuette to the Pyramid in Citadel - we'll be glad of the speed.

As far as jumping is concerned, I'm not sure jumping makes sense on snow - it's not easy and you are liable to sink on landing!

And falling - well, who cares if the game thumbs it's nose at Newton. Exile boasted perfect physics but coupled it with utter tedium. ;)
Author:  SteveO [ Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: First playable build
What about a walk and run speed ? i.e. default to walk, press and hold shift if you want to run.
Author:  AndrewW [ Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First playable build
Are there any music experts here?
Author:  DaveM [ Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First playable build
DaveF wrote:
There probably won't be music (as I am completely unable to compose a tune)

Then why don't you approach one of the Sound & Music volunteers on the new and improved Team Sheet

Gotta agree with Peter, an atmospheric background score could really add something ... need to find or write something quiet/delicate, along the lines of Spellbinder perhaps (though not as fast) or Galaforce 2 (though not as, erm, spacey).
Author:  TomW [ Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First playable build
I could try to make some ingame music. I was thinking of something mainly ambient/atmospheric, with maybe fading in/out melody every now and again, like eg Equinox on the SNES (for those who've heard of it) or bits of Stratosfear by Tangerine Dream (for those who haven't).
Author:  DaveJ [ Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First playable build
Sorry Tom, I've never heard those. But are you thinking along the lines of the music to Galaforce 2?
Author:  DaveF [ Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First playable build
Hmm. Thanks for the offer Tom!

How much space would it take, and do you have a play routine?

TomW wrote:
Equinox on the SNES (for those who've heard of it) or bits of Stratosfear by Tangerine Dream (for those who haven't).


Equinox I've not played, but good Tangerine Dream reference. Another (rather appropriate one) perhaps something like "Antarctica" by Daniel Pemberton? I also rather like the music in the "Temple of Time" (Zelda 64)... That sort of thing.

The general issue though is that space/time allocated to music/player means I can fit less in the game. I suppose if all else fails we can do an intro.
Author:  DaveM [ Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First playable build
If you're struggling for memory, perhaps you could provide background music on Model B's fitted with min 16k s/w ram (or BBC B+, BBC Masters etc)
Author:  TomW [ Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First playable build
Yes, that was my thinking. Maybe for standard 32k machines you could just have ambient sounds, eg wind, and maybe the odd spot effect when the player's sanity is hit or something.

I don't have a specific player atm, but I have written several for various purposes. I've been meaning to write a proper generic player/editor for the beeb/pc, maybe this is what I need to make me actually do it!

I can guarantee that it would fit in 1 SWRAM bank, probably 12k (for BBC B+) or maybe even 8. When would you need the music done by?
Author:  DaveF [ Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First playable build
Don't need it done for any particular time really. Whenever it's ready is good for me.

I'm having a "break" from Panic for a week or so now anyway as it's taken a fair bit of time up. But when I get back on track I can look at putting some sound in.

As I said earlier, I'm planning to produce another playable for Christmas, if we had some spot sound effects in for that, it'd be grand. I know sod all about sound to be honest.

Currently the game runs with all the interrupts off and fires its own vsync based on a timer (so I have a few more scanlines to do my stuff). Would that be a problem?
Author:  TomW [ Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First playable build
Probably not. It will need the main playback routine calling regularly (can be done at the end of all other processing for the frame). If any bass notes are needed, it will also need 1 timer and about 3-4% extra CPU time. That will also play havok with the OS keyboard routines, so you may need to directly access the keyboard (if you aren't doing so already).

For those who don't know the two music sources I posted earlier, here's a short snipit of Tangerine Dream's 'Invisible Limits'. This section is the kind of sound I was thinking of.

Attachment:
Invisible Limits.zip [1.12 MiB]
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Author:  DaveJ [ Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First playable build
I think that would work very well indeed.
Author:  AndrewW [ Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First playable build
I've seen interleaved music done in BBC BASIC on an Arc. Surely the main memory consumption would be the sound data? Could this be compressed in the form of <8 bits per byte?
What about other possibilities like multiload levels?
Author:  Samwise [ Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First playable build
TomW wrote:
For those who don't know the two music sources I posted earlier, here's a short snipit of Tangerine Dream's 'Invisible Limits'. This section is the kind of sound I was thinking of.

I think that would work pretty well - tho I still think it would be good if the music switched to something more frantic on a screen with danger on, like the penguins.

Sam.
Author:  DaveF [ Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First playable build
Yes, I'm more in favour of the odd spot fx sound myself, although I'm open to seeing how it'll work if Tom knocks something up.

Just don't want to get carried away, have to remember it's a 32K BBC. Of course the ideal is something like the music does on Silent Hill, working up to a climax but I don't have a dedicated SPU to work with :)
Author:  FrancisL [ Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First playable build
Just downloaded and tried the demo out. It's looking pretty sweet!

My only complaint at the moment is that the guy moves a bit too fast, especially considering that he is supposed to be walking through snow.

Kind regards,

Francis.
Author:  DaveF [ Mon Sep 22, 2008 1:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First playable build
Thanks for the input Francis, and thanks for the BBC Image Converter :)

I will probably slow the player down for the next playable build.
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