It would be insane to eliminate a large proportion of the potential market, by not supplying SSDs ...
I reckon it might be interesting to make copy protection an optional extra. Maybe even run a competition for the first person to crack it!
Sam.
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| Release Formats http://www.retrosoftware.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=217 |
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| Author: | DaveM [ Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Release Formats |
Just in case people were wondering, these are the formats we intend to go with when releasing software on original media ... BBC Micro/Master - Cassette - 5.25" DFS Disc BBC Master Compact - 3.5" ADFS Disc Acorn Electron - Cassette - 3.5" ADFS Disc - 5.25" DFS Disc Acorn Atom - Cassette Acorn Archimedes - 3.5" ADFS Disc - CDROM ? (Not sure about the last one ... any thoughts?) |
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| Author: | RichTW [ Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Release Formats |
Just on this theme - I mentioned it in another thread but it may have got lost in the wilderness - I think it would be great to create some kind of protection system for the releases. Not to prevent piracy, but more just to add to the authentic 'feel' of a new Beeb release. Would anyone out there (I don't know if Guy from STH has joined this forum yet...) be interested in creating a protection system? I could imagine both a custom tape loader (maybe all in one block like the Ultimate titles), and some kind of disc system which could incorporate the dual-format 40/80 code, which would then also remove the 50k limitation. What does anyone think? |
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| Author: | DaveF [ Sat Nov 08, 2008 12:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Release Formats |
I'd been thinking the same thing Rich, and Guy does seem a natural choice.. |
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| Author: | DaveM [ Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Release Formats |
re: disc protection, I don't really mind either way ... I certainly wouldn't say no to seeing an example of one of Guy's protection programs (and the resultant protected disc!) ... maybe someone can lure him along to the forum? The only problem with issuing copy-protected discs is that it might piss someone off who was hoping to transfer it to .ssd format for use with an emulator ... |
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| Author: | DaveF [ Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Release Formats |
DaveM wrote: The only problem with issuing copy-protected discs is that it might piss someone off who was hoping to transfer it to .ssd format for use with an emulator ... Well won't the ssd be available too? |
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| Author: | Samwise [ Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Release Formats |
It would be insane to eliminate a large proportion of the potential market, by not supplying SSDs ... I reckon it might be interesting to make copy protection an optional extra. Maybe even run a competition for the first person to crack it! Sam. |
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| Author: | DaveF [ Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Release Formats |
The few that I've seen reviewed in Retro Gamer tend to be available as something like:
BBC Micro Cassette - £2.99 Emulator image - Free Or something like that. So really adding the protection isn't anything to do with stopping transfer or piracy, it's just to add to the retro feel of it all! |
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| Author: | DaveM [ Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Release Formats |
DaveF wrote:
BBC Micro Cassette - £2.99 Well, those are the exact prices I have in mind for tapes and discs. As for the distribution of ssd images, I still need to have a good think! I was considering the idea of issuing them on a CD in a slimline jewel case with inlay (that would be very similar in size/style to the 5.25" inlay). We could add versions of the latest emulators to pad out each CD. And maybe even a video interview with the author, explaining the background/history and the tools/techniques used to create the game!  And even though emulator images are hardly 'retro', I find the idea of presenting them as a physical, packaged product far more interesting and it does seem to be a more traditional/old-school way of doing things. Then maybe we could finally issue them as a free download a year or so after the original release? (The reason I'm wary of issuing them for free from the get-go is that you'll probably get a few hundred people downloading them, but only 7 or so will bother to leave any comments/feedback). But at least if you charge a [miniscule] amount - the fact that people are actually willing to put their hands in their pockets would effectively be another form of recognition. But at the end of the day, I guess it will be up to each individual author to decide how they want their work to be released. |
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| Author: | DaveM [ Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Release Formats |
Been having another think about pricing/formats and seeing as we have all sorts of games in progress, I was thinking it might be cool to introduce a few different "labels" each with their own style and identity. Something along these lines, perhaps ... Premier Range Titles falling under this category would be comparable in quality to full-price Superior Software releases from the period 1986-1990. I think games like Repton: TLR and Mountain Panic could certainly be classed as such! Tapes would be packaged in dual cassette cases whilst Discs would be packaged in 5.25" jewel cases. Both would have full colour inlays. Standard Range Such releases might be typical of Acornsoft/Superior stuff from 1984/1985 or perhaps games that made their first appearance on a Play It Again Sam compilation. Tapes would be packaged in /single/ cassette cases but Discs would still be packaged in 5.25" jewel cases. Again, both would have full colour inlays. Freeware Range We already have a couple of these underway! (Rocket Attack and Sparse Invaders)Tapes would be packaged in single cassette cases with mono inlays (just like the one I did for Sparse) and Discs would either be packaged loose (in disc sleeves only) or, if I can find somethere that supplies PVC wallets big enough to fit a 5.25" disc in we could also distribute disc versions with an inlay too (similar to how ASL released Psycastria and Sphere of Destiny). And as far as pricing goes, how about ... Code: Premier Range BBC Micro Cassette* ................. £3.95 Acorn Electron Cassette .............. £3.95 BBC Micro 5.25" DFS Disc* ........... £4.95 Acorn Electron 5.25" DFS Disc ........ £4.95 BBC Master Compact 3.5" ADFS Disc* .. £4.95 Acorn Electron 3.5" ADFS Disc ........ £4.95 Any of the above Emulator Images on CD-ROM with colour inlays and documentation .... £3.95 All of the above Emulator Images on CD-ROM with colour inlays and documentation .... £4.95 Any of the above Emulator Images as a Digital Download (available after 6 months) ... £1.95 * = compatible with the BBC B, BBC B+ and BBC Master Series computers Code: Standard Range BBC Micro Cassette* ................. £1.95 Acorn Electron Cassette .............. £1.95 BBC Micro 5.25" DFS Disc* ........... £2.95 Acorn Electron 5.25" DFS Disc ........ £2.95 BBC Master Compact 3.5" ADFS Disc* .. £2.95 Acorn Electron 3.5" ADFS Disc ........ £2.95 Any of the above Emulator Images on CD-ROM with colour inlays and documentation .... £1.95 All of the above Emulator Images on CD-ROM with colour inlays and documentation .... £2.95 Any of the above Emulator Images as a Digital Download .............................. £0.95 * = compatible with the BBC B, BBC B+ and BBC Master Series computers Code: Freeware Range BBC Micro Cassette* ................. £0.95 Acorn Electron Cassette .............. £0.95 BBC Micro 5.25" DFS Disc* ........... £1.50 Acorn Electron 5.25" DFS Disc ........ £1.50 BBC Master Compact 3.5" ADFS Disc* .. £1.50 Acorn Electron 3.5" ADFS Disc ........ £1.50 Any of the above Emulator Images as a Digital Download .............................. FREE * = compatible with the BBC B, BBC B+ and BBC Master Series computers £5 might seem expensive but bear in mind that the price of new/packaged disc-based games for the C64 is about eight quid! (though I appreciate the C64 has a large international following, so there will be a lot more demand for Commodore wares). However, I do reckon that people who regularly contribute to Retro Software (whether it be by writing games, designing gfx/levels or simply by being an active member of the forum) should be issued with 'discount codes' that would in turn give them the option of having: - £2.00 discount on any "Physical" product in the Premier range - £1.00 discount on any Direct Download in the Premier range - £0.95 discount on any Direct Download in the Standard range (making it FREE!) In all cases, we could eventually make every game available as a free download, maybe 1.5 - 2 years after release. As I'll soon be mastering the discs for our first, packaged release (a vertical shootemup for the BBC Micro called ZAP) I'll want to settle on the identity/style of each "label" soon. So speak up now if you have any comments!
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| Author: | AndrewW [ Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Release Formats |
I think they're all quite reaasonable options. Will Zap be a standard range item? The other thing is, would you ever consider a release big enough for one of the big box releases e.g. acornsoft Elite or the Superior Software(and 4th Dimension) "video" case releases (Revs, Elite etc)? |
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| Author: | DaveF [ Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Release Formats |
AndrewW wrote: The other thing is, would you ever consider a release big enough for one of the big box releases e.g. acornsoft Elite or the Superior Software(and 4th Dimension) "video" case releases (Revs, Elite etc)? I suppose the problem there is that the original boxes are quite hard to source. The 4th Dimension things looked awful IMHO |
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| Author: | DaveJ [ Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Release Formats |
DaveF wrote: The 4th Dimension things looked awful IMHO Oddly, the jewel cases they (and Impact Games) used were very high quality - much thicker plastic than the ones Superior used. But those horrible black video style cases looked really cheap compared to the ones Superior used. |
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| Author: | DaveM [ Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Release Formats |
Thanks for the feedback. I only have a very limited supply of unused Video Boxes (maybe 40-50 boxes total). I actually intend to use some of these for Christopher Dewhurst's upcoming Arcade Adventure Design Kit, which will include a lengthy A5 manual. Yes, Zap will be a standard release. I'm definitely doing a 5.25" disc version; if I have time I'll do a cassette release too. Incidentally, the arrangement I have with Jamie is that packaged copies of Zap will only be available at Byte Back (though if you want one but can't make the event, let me know and I'll put a Zap aside!). |
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| Author: | DaveF [ Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Release Formats |
Sounds good, I'll probably buy a copy of Zap at the show, it looks pretty decent What are jewel cases? Not sure what style that is! |
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| Author: | DaveM [ Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Release Formats |
By 'Single Cassette Jewel Case' I just mean a regular, plastic cassette case that will fit one tape in (like the mock-up Mountain Panic one I sent you). Btw, Zap homepage is now up at http://www.retrosoftware.co.uk/zap which includes a video of the actual gameplay. Samwise has created a forum for Zap too, so feel free to ask any questions or leave comments about the video there. Finally, every penny of each 'donation' (recommended amount = £3) will be forwarded to the charities associated with Byte Back. I'll subsidise the printing/media costs myself. |
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| Author: | AndrewW [ Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Release Formats |
DaveM wrote: Thanks for the feedback. I only have a very limited supply of unused Video Boxes (maybe 40-50 boxes total). I actually intend to use some of these for Christopher Dewhurst's upcoming Arcade Adventure Design Kit, which will include a lengthy A5 manual. Yes, Zap will be a standard release. I'm definitely doing a 5.25" disc version; if I have time I'll do a cassette release too. Incidentally, the arrangement I have with Jamie is that packaged copies of Zap will only be available at Byte Back (though if you want one but can't make the event, let me know and I'll put a Zap aside!). I wondered what Christopher D. had been doing!  Do we have any more informationon it - is it similar/conversion to the Cronosoft Spectrum release?
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| Author: | DaveM [ Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Release Formats |
I don't think anybody knows much about it at present - I think Christopher's plan is to give first glimpse to everybody at Byte Back!
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| Author: | AndrewW [ Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Release Formats |
Talk about a potential success multiplier: arcade adventure creator Incidentally as I'm not sure if I'll be able to make BB, I'd love to buy anything that's released there e.g. Zap. |
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| Author: | DaveM [ Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Release Formats |
Ok, we've now got our first release under our belts (Zap) and, unless anybody has any objections, we'll shortly be announcing the following 'pricing structure': Code: WHITE LABEL (Full Price) ======================== e.g. Mountain Panic, Repton: The Lost Realms Limited Offer Price (1st Month) ------------------------------- Cassette ............................................. £2.95 + £1.00 postage 5.25 or 3.5 Disc ..................................... £3.95 + £1.50 postage Standard Emulator Image CD ........................... £2.95 + £1.00 postage Deluxe Emulator Image CD ............................. £3.95 + £1.50 postage Emulator Image Download .............................. £ n/a Regular Price (1 Month after release) ------------------------------------- Cassette ............................................. £3.50 + £1.00 postage (55p increase) 5.25 or 3.5 Disc ..................................... £4.50 + £1.50 postage (55p increase) Standard Emulator Image CD ........................... £3.50 + £1.00 postage (55p increase) Deluxe Emulator Image CD ............................. £4.50 + £1.50 postage (55p increase) Emulator Image Download .............................. £2.50 Code: BLUE LABEL (Mid-Range) ====================== e.g. Zap, The Krystal Connection Limited Offer Price (1st Month) ------------------------------- Cassette ............................................. £1.95 + £1.00 postage 5.25 or 3.5 Disc ..................................... £2.95 + £1.50 postage Standard Emulator Image CD ........................... £1.95 + £1.00 postage Deluxe Emulator Image CD ............................. £2.95 + £1.50 postage Emulator Image Download .............................. £ n/a Regular Price (1 Month after release) ------------------------------------- Cassette ............................................. £2.50 + £1.00 postage (55p increase) 5.25 or 3.5 Disc ..................................... £3.50 + £1.50 postage (55p increase) Standard Emulator Image CD ........................... £2.50 + £1.00 postage (55p increase) Deluxe Emulator Image CD ............................. £3.50 + £1.50 postage (55p increase) Emulator Image Download .............................. £1.50 So please speak up if you have any concerns! Misc points: - prices barely cover the cost of toner/materials (not to mention the oodles spent on duplicating equipment, printers etc) however we're deliberately keeping prices low as we'd like to shift as many packaged copies of each game as possible - following on from the above, the download-only option will be unavailable for the first month ... simply to encourage any would-be buyers to go for one of the 'physical' offerings instead! - the 'Standard Emulator Image CD' will contain the game in DFS Disc image format only (i.e. SSD). It will be supplied on a 'Business Card'-style CD complete with printed label, colour inlay and [tiny!] jewel case. - the 'Deluxe Emulator Image CD' will feature disc images in both DFS (SSD) and ADFS (ADF) formats, as well as the cassette version in UEF, WAVE and red book audio formats. It will be supplied on full-size CD complete with printed label, colour inlay and jewel case - if an author wishes to receive a royalty per sale, then prices will increase accordingly (e.g. 50p for Blue Label releases, £1.00 for White Label releases). |
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| Author: | AndrewW [ Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Release Formats |
Sounds very fair to me. |
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