Guys,

By default, PHP sets the maximum size of file that can be uploaded to 2MB. We can ask the hoster if this can be increased but the question is, how big do we want that to be?

SteveO's current web page has tutorial video files going up to 25MB. Do we want the wiki to handle large files like this, or would they be better to be hosted somewhere like YouTube and linked from the wiki?

What limit for a single file would y'all suggest as appropriate, given the projects you're working on?

Sam.

I personally can't imagine needing much more than about 100k to be honest..! enough for a disc image or smallish picture. I think video is much better hosted on YouTube or something (is there any support for YouTube embedded video in the Wiki?).

Well, your BeebASM-v0.05.zip file on the BeebASM page is 225 KB!



There is now.

You can embed a video into any page in either of the following ways:



-or-



Where:

service is the name of a video sharing service - dailymotion, funnyordie, googlevideo, sevenload, revver or youtube
id is the id of the video to include
width (optional) is the width in pixels of the viewing area (height will be determined automatically)

However, let's not let that distract this thread from it's purpose which is to determine whether a maximum filesize upload limit of 2 MB is going to be a problem or not ...

Sounds like Rich is happy. Anyone else got thoughts? Dave? Steve, what do you think about video hosting here vs. YouTube/Google Video?

Sam.

For my applications, around 2meg should be OK, Swift is currenlt 1.2 ish uncompressed. So that would leave plenty of lee way. Shame you can't alter that upload_max_filesize setting.

My videos should be OK on YouTube as long as there are no time limits for expiry that I'd need to keep checking and the quality remains the same, and if i need to replace one can it be dumped straight on top or does it have to be a new video ?

Can we just FTP the videos to a directory outside of \wiki e.g. \videos and create links from within the wiki page? That way we could still have a wiki upload limit of 2Mb, right?!?

Think there are advantages in hosting the files as opposed to YouTube, as it means they can easily be downloaded i.e. you don't have to be online to view (well OK, you can get FLV downloaders but generally the FLV players are crap!).

err .. we can! That's what this discussion is about. Do we need to and, if so, to what would be an acceptable limit?



YouTube videos are limited to 320 by 240 pixels and a bitrate of around 314kbit/s by re-encoding the uploaded video at the time of upload. Uploaded videos are also limited to 10 minutes and 1 GB. Google Video's Help Center claims that videos can be uploaded "without any size or length limitations", though I haven't put that to the test. As for whether you can replace videos at a later time, I have no idea ... but it's a simple job to just point the wiki at a new one instead. Maybe you'd like to experiment loading your videos on to Google Video (if they're longer than 10 mins) and report back?



Could do, I spose, but if we want to host videos on the site we may as well just up the limit and use the wiki - it has a much simpler interface than asking newbies to mess with FTP.



Personally, I'd far rather have it streamed, as I have 8 Mb broadband and don't really want to wait around to completely download a video before I can start watching it, which will also clog up my HD with a video I probably won't want to store permanently - but that's just me.

We could up the PHP limit and have the best of both worlds - you could link to a streaming version on YouTube/Google Video AND host a downloadable version, if you really want - though that would mean the video creator would have to upload it to both the wiki and YouTube/Google Video as well, which is a bit more work.

Sam.

Sorry meant "you" as in "you", you said you couldn't do it and you'd have to ask the hoster, from that point on I made up a fantasy world where I interpreted your post to mean it would be a real hassle to ask them. When in fact back in the real world you inferred no such thing.... Still in my fantasy world Acorn still existed and everyone knew about Beebs !.... I think I'll go back to it




That's going to be no good for my videos then, as you'll not be able to work out what's going on or what I'm typing. There instructional vids, so people need to see them clearly.

In retrospect of what's been said I think upping the Wiki limit would be my preference or linking to the vids on STH. Or FTP, I think I can handle that Might be better as you could then restrict (perhaps more easily, I don't know as don't know Wiki's) who can upload and max file sizes.

For me, I prefer to download first then watch, not a fan of streaming. I can always delete if I wish.

/me quietly listens to Steve's outburst as the Carpenters song, Close to You, plays over the top.

"Why do birds suddenly appear ..."



Right, but did you miss the bit about Google Video apparently hosting without limits?



Even given the note about Google Video's no limits policy?



Not keen on this at all. If anything, it will be more work to allow different users to upload different file sizes - someone would have to maintain FTP user accounts for individuals, documentation would have to be written for newbies who don't have an FTP client installed on how to use one, and then what's to stop ppl uploading filetypes we don't want etc.



Ahh, the opposite of me, then.

So, do you still prefer not to stream (even if Google Video has no limits)?

If so, what upper file limit would you prefer? Your current biggest tutorial is labelled as 25 MB.

Sam.

No I saw that, can't check that out till later. But....


Yes, after I thought about it, i prefer to download. That said I will have a look at GoogleVideo when I get time.


As it's only my stuff causing much of an issue, can we not just not have a normal Wiki limit for normal users and just the odd one or two FTP accounts for oddballs like me ! In fact possible only myself needs FTP access. No need for every registered user of the Wiki to be allowed FTP access. Are they all allowed normal Wiki upload rights by default then ?

.
If doing it the Wiki way we could set a limit of 25meg. I'll just had to rework the topics I'm covering if they creep past that limit.

But as I've just written, can't we have a 2m Wiki limit and just open an FTP access for myself. Would seem to solve all our debates ?

OK, using the wonders of modern technology, I've turned this into our first poll. After reading through the pros and cons in this thread, pls cast your votes accordingly!

Sam.

I've voted "As big as possible" just because it was the only option not involving streaming. Barring Google results the videos should not lose quality. But obviously Google may not do this and may stream ok. Jut no time to check just yet.

.... Oh bugger, just realised the "other" option was referring to posting below your other option. I thought a text area was going to appear to make a comment and when it didn't I unclicked it.

In that case consider my vote for "other" and my reasons being those described in my other post about just have very limited users with FTP access.

Until the next person comes along who needs it. This is just a policy we need to decide on - if we're going to host videos, we simply need to arrange for the parameter to be set accordingly. Uploading videos to the wiki should be just as simple as it would to an FTP site, through your web browser.



Yes. Though there are certain limitations to the files, such as the types of file which can be uploaded.



If doing it the wiki way, we should just decide on a sensible limit so that shouldn't be necessary ... I think if we went over 50 MB we might start running into problems, tho.

Let's see what the poll looks like, when we've heard from a few of the others.

Sam.

All options over 10 MB mention the option of storing vids on the wiki!



You can change your vote on the poll, if you want ...

Sam.

Actually, I should stop fiddling with it but I've added you a special option, Steve ...

Only if within limit, go beyond an it says they go to streaming. All options I mentioned state streaming if limit surpassed.



Cool, didn't realise that, vote changed.

heh heh, Changed my vote again, thanks

Right, I've tried Google video, and failed to upload a 12meg file twice, uploads for a while then get a page can't be displayed message. They say use the browser for anything up to 100meg so should be ok. There is an uploader program I could try but losing interest a bit now. Will try later and see if I can get it up there.

What browser are you using? I've had such problems with IE in the past. Firefox is somewhat more reliable ...

Sam.

I tried using Firefox at home tonight and succeeded,

But, all this conversation has become academic, yes Google keep the physical size in width and depth and you can upload big files but.... They process the file when they get it and reduce quality massively, I couldn't read any text or work out the screens very well at all.

Here's a screenshot of the quality,



I guess if this was moving video of people etc. then you can get away with it but for computer screens it loses too much.

I think most will agree, it's lost too much. So IMO we need to host separately in some shape or form whether just Wiki or with FTP

OK, thanks for trying that out. Assuming Dave is on board, hosting videos here is fine by me ...

However, I am still against the idea of having a separate FTP site, unless the hoster is averse to upping the PHP limit. If we're going to host videos, the wiki is more than capable of doing it and then everyone can make use of the functionality without a load of admin hassle.

It still leaves the question of what we should change the PHP limit to - we could limit it at 25 MB, or just go the whole hog and go up to 50 or 60 MB.

Sam.